Συζήτηση:Κύρια Σελίδα/Αρχαία

Comments on grammar

ἰδού χρεῖ ὀνομαστικήν. Επισκέπτομαι = visit = ῀επέρχεσθαι [1] Ανδρέας 18:43, 26 Μαΐου 2006 (UTC)

Το «ἔλθοντες» δεν θα έπρεπε να είναι «ἐλθόντες»; --Αναστάσιος 20:02, 16 Ιουνίου 2006 (UTC)

Είναι γενεαί πάσαι, αλλά Άπασαι αι Κατηγορίαι --ΗΠΣΤΓ 21:16, 26 Ιουλίου 2006 (UTC)

Digamma

Digamma was not used in the classical form of Attic greek. If we introduce a word with a digamma here, then many other words would have to have a digamma, such as ἐπεξFεργαστέων etc. Plutarch translitterated Latin v either as β (Vetori - Βέτερι, Helvetios - Ἐλβηττίους) or ου (Valerii - Οὐαλερίου), see Καίσαρ. AndreasJS 16:47, 15 Οκτωβρίου 2008 (UTC)

This was mainly an issue in the wp/grc but since Cml (User:Crazymadlover) has raised it here as well, I will have to make some comments. Noone disagrees on the fact that this was indeed the way that the sound /w/ was transcribed in the Koine period of Greek and onwards. In Attic Greek this sound was transcribed mstly by <μ> or <ο>. So, a good solution here would be to adopt Koine Greek for the interface and quickly solve the problem. In wp/grc the situation is a bit more complicated. Wikipedias are in principle allowed to endorse more than one dialects. So, Cml and I had the conviction that there should exist in this project articles in Ionic, Aeolic, and Doric Greek: in these dialects, for example, Ϝέργον makes perfect sense. Let me show you an example of a nonProtoGreek-originated sound /w/ being transcribed as Ϝ in pre-Attic Ancient Greek: Εις Άρτεμιν Ορθίαν (the word is Ϝανδάνην). In most other occurrences of digamma in Ancient texts (such as here: Ύμνοι και Επιθαλάμια: Κύπρι και Νηρήιδες) the words that contain this sound are usually derived from Proto-Greek. But, the case of Fανδάνη (appearing in Alkman's text) is different; it's pre-Greek, it was borrowed in pre-Attic Greek with the /w/ sound intact, and finally survived in Classical Greek as Μανδάνη. The same applies to the pre-Attic ϝέδιμνος as well; the word (see Beekes's papers) is pre-Greek (root *wedimn-); the word survived in Attic Greek as μέδιμνος. So, if this practice existed in pre-Attic Greek loanwords, we could legitimately revive it in modern times. The problem began when we started overusing the digamma; it even appeared in articles written in Koine or Attic Greek which was an obvious anachronism. In order to avoid the mess caused by having several incompatible dialects appearing in the same text, I proposed (see also your talk-page) to keep Attic/Koine as the default language but also have versions of some articles written in other dialects (different grammar, syntax, phonology). This will marginalize the anachronisms. Sadly, most grc-wikipedians have been on a general wikibreak for the past month and the discussion in the wp/grc Agora has stagnated but I will try to revive it. Now, there is just one anachronistic occurrence of digamma with which I am bit more tolerant: the prefix Wiki as Ϝίκι. For the record, I remark that this was the original proposal about the transcription of wiki by User:LeighvsOptimvsMaximvs 3 years ago; plus,the first user to transcribe wiki into grc in his username was wikt:el's Dutch-speaking User:Ϝικιβάρβαρος. Later on, User:Lefcant discarded this proposal and for the sake of consistency promoted the term οὐίκι; his proposal gained immediate consensus and for the next 2 years nobody challenged it. That is until Cml and I tried to create a logo for wp/grc and redesign its main-page: the capitalization ΟΥΪΚΙΠΑΙΔΕΙΑ seemed (at least to us) very counterintuitive as an image; furthermore, and on more general grounds, we thought that it is a wiki that is supposed to encompass all grc dialects, but the transcription of /w/ by <οὐ>/<β> just doesn't make sense in non-Attic dialects or even in the early Atttic dialect (in these dialects <οὐ> ambiguously corresponds either to /oː/ or /ou/). So how about keeping just this anachronism? --Omnipaedista 08:02, 20 Μαΐου 2009 (UTC)

Update: per the current consensus in the grc test-project (by Aldameldo, ZaDiak, and me) the digamma has been replaced by Β, the objective being to narrow the linguistic scope of the project, so that it only includes Koine Greek. --Omnipaedista 21:57, 15 Ιουλίου 2009 (UTC)

Meta proposal

See the ongoing discussion on Meta about the improvement of the grc-part of the ws:el . --Omnipaedista 08:02, 20 Μαΐου 2009 (UTC)