Συζήτηση:Μεταφυσικά

The books I added came from http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/philosophes/Aristote/metaphysique1gr.htm.

--Ζεφυρος 19:57, 10 Αυγούστου 2007 (UTC)

Επιλογή του λήμματος Μεταφυσικά

Ο Ορφίων με ρωτά γιατί ονομάζπμε το έργε αυτό του Αριστοτέλη "Μεταφυσικά" (βλέπε w:en:User talk:AndreasJS#Μετά τα Φυσικά ως Μεταφυσικά). Εγώ προσωπικώς δεν έχω απάντηση, μόνο φιλόλογος που ασχολέιται με τον Αριστοτέλη θα μπορόυσε να εξηγήσει απο πού έρχεται αυτός ο τίτλος. Προφανώς απο το λατινικό "metaphusica", που βρίσεκεται στίς διεθνείς εκδόσεις του έργου. Τό κείμενο στη Βικιθήκη ανεβάστηκε πρώτa από το Χρήστης:Marc. Συνεχίζω στα αγγλικά για να ασχοληθουν και οι ξένοι χρήστες της Βικιθήκης.AndreasJS (συζήτηση) 15:03, 10 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC)

Why the title "Μεταφυσικά" in Greek?

Of you all who are experts in Aristotle, does anybody know why whe call this work in English "Metaphysics" and in Latin "Metaphysica"? Is the title in Greek "Μεταφυσικά" appropriate? Should it not rather be "Μετὰ τὰ φυσικά" (or "Μετά τα φυσικά" in monotonic accentuation)? When did the title "Metaphysica" first appear in the literature, and who introduced it? AndreasJS (συζήτηση) 15:03, 10 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC)

I will go on using the English language as AndreasJS chose even though it is not my native language. In this post I have to say:

A. it is not necessary to look for a specialist on Aristotle. We just have to look at the editions that exist in Greek all the past years. Also the official catalogues always name it: "Μετά τά Φυσικά".

B. the greek word "μεταφυσικά" (metaphysics) is neither ancient in Greek nor in Latin language. In Aristotle's days this word did not exist. For the first time this word is met in the writings of Saint Basil the Great, also called Basil of Caesarea. At the "Lexicon of the Greek Language" Mr Babiniotis at the entry "μεταφυσικά" notes:
"A Hellenistic word that exists already from the time of Saint Basil"
and gives the first occurrence of the word in Saint Basil's work called "Εις Προφήτην Ησαΐαν 5.162" (About the Prophet Isaiah 5.162)
"επί τα της φυσιολογίας ανώτερα προκόψας, τα καλούμενα παρά τισι μεταφυσικά." (I am sorry I will not take the responsibility of translating this in English. Μy English is primitive for such a translation).
Mr Babiniotis also notes that:
"the word (μεταφυσικά) comes from the fusion of the ancient title of Aristotle's work 'Μετά τα Φυσικά'. The word passed in other languages from the medieval Latin word 'metaphysicus'."
As you can see it does not exist even in ancient Latin, but only appears in the medieval Latin.

I can understand if in other languages use the word "metaphysics", but when we publish(even it is digital) the ancient text, we must not choose our own title instead.
I hope this was of some help

Reader of this post have joy.

( Orphiwn (συζήτηση) 19:22, 10 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC) )

Replying to both issues, it seems that the right title for Metaphysics as edited by Immanuel Bekker (editor of the Aristotelis opera omnia) is Τῶν μετὰ τὰ φυσικά. Consider the genitive is present in other titles, such as Φυσικῆς ἀκροάσεως, Ἀναλυτικῶν προτέρων or Ἀναλυτικῶν ὑστέρων.

Just in case it helps, --Ousia (συζήτηση) 19:49, 10 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC)

The word "metaphysics" was invented by later editors of Aristotle's works. It was meant to describe the contents of the books that came after (μετά) Aristotle's Physics. According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy the original title in greek (i.e. the first title that was given to the books by an editor) was Τα Μετά τα Φυσικά. I'd say that nowadays both titles are used equally often, but I'm in favour of sticking with the original - Μετά τα Φυσικά. --Christina Nicolaou (συζήτηση) 19:51, 10 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, after your reply, Christina, I don't know what is the question. You want to use an ancient title with a contemporary ortography (in that case, I think it makes more sense to use the modern title). --Ousia (συζήτηση) 20:18, 10 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I'm in favour of using the ancient title with the original orthography/accentuation. --Christina Nicolaou (συζήτηση) 05:39, 11 Φεβρουαρίου 2013 (UTC)

All titiles in Βικιθήκη are monotonic. I opened a discussion at Βικιθήκη:Γραμματεία#Polytonic titles. AndreasJS (συζήτηση)